Hi,
If Torizon cloud is down for some reason, it will be a single point of failure to update devices. Are there alternative ways to update firmware without Torizon cloud.
Moreover, the product we shall work will last in the market for 15~20 years. What if Torizon cloud does not provide service for that long period?
Best Regards
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Hello,
Yes, there are alternative methods to update firmware on Toradex devices without relying on TorizonCloud. One common approach is to use the Update Tool provided by Toradex, which allows for manual updates via a USB drive or over the network. This method involves downloading the firmware update package to your local machine, transferring it to the device, and executing the update process manually.
Another approach is to use the Yocto Project to build a custom image with your application and firmware updates included. This image can then be flashed onto the device using a method such as flashing over Ethernet or using a bootable USB drive.
For real-time or critical applications where updates need to be controlled tightly, you might consider implementing your own update mechanism. This could involve creating a custom service on the device that listens for update packages from a designated server within your infrastructure, allowing you to bypass public cloud services altogether.
It’s important to ensure that any update mechanism you implement is secure and reliable, to prevent unauthorized access and ensure the integrity of your devices.
Best regards,
Toradex AI Assistant
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Greetings @khaled.hassan,
Are there alternative ways to update firmware without Torizon cloud.
Well, Torizon Cloud is our go-to preferred solution for updating Toradex devices. I understand your concern though. You would need some kind of other solution or self-made backup in such a case. Though this is of course easier said than done. I can say our update framework is based on open source solutions, so in theory it could be re-created.
I guess is your expectation here that we (Toradex) should provide a backup process if our own Torizon Cloud services is down? Or are you just looking for recommendations?
Moreover, the product we shall work will last in the market for 15~20 years. What if Torizon cloud does not provide service for that long period?
Well I don’t know think anyone in Toradex can guarantee with 100% certainty what the state of everything will be in 15-20 years. All I can say for now is that we are invested long-term with our Torizon Cloud solution.
If your product requires certain guarantees from us. It could be possible to discuss a SLA with regards to Torizon Cloud where we can discuss in more detail what we can guarantee.
Best Regards,
Jeremias
Can Toradex provide a backup solution?
What is your recommendation too for alternative approach.
Hi Khaled,
There are a couple of alternatives to Torizon Cloud both on the server side and on the client side. On the server side, you have Memfault, Mender and QBee as commercial solutions and hawkbit as free open-source solution.
On the client or device side, you have SwUpdate, RAUC, Mender and OSTree (the client used by Torizon Cloud). The clients are all free open-source and work with all the different servers (except for OSTree, which might need a special server).
All theses solutions have their pros and cons. Getting them working on your devices in production quality takes considerable time. This is the time that Toradex saves you with Torizon Cloud.
When it comes to longevity, I wouldn’t worry about Toradex. They have been around for 21 years in a highly competitive industry. They have invested a lot more in software (OTA update, secure boot, integrity check of rootfs, encryption, etc. - all nearly out of the box) than their peers. They are really in for the long term.
In short, you’ll have to consider quite a few trade-offs.
Cheers,
Burkhard
As @bstubert, has stated there are many alternative solutions for software updates. The hard part is integrating them into a final product. To have a full backup/alternative update stack would be asking to integrate an entirely separate update solution. Which isn’t practical or feasible in many situations.
If anything it would be a concern as having multiple update processes on your device would open a device up to more routes of attack/insecurities. It’s why such backups/alternative processes should be considered carefully from a security stand-point. It can be difficult enough to secure just one update process.
It should be noted that even if our server-side were to go down for unplanned reasons, our update client is still capable of offline updates: How to Use Secure Offline Updates with Torizon OS | Toradex Developer Center
This would allow updates to be delivered without explicit connection with our server, while still providing the best security we can guarantee in such a scenario. This could be seen as a “backup” then in a sense without needing to integrate an entirely separate update stack.
Best Regards,
Jeremias
Hi, Wanted to know how to update fleet in offline
Hi, Wanted to know how to update fleet in offline
Well in an offline update scenario there’s not really the concept of “fleets” like there is an online. Since in many cases customers who use offline updates truly have their devices offline with no network connection.
What could be done is to create a mechanism that distributes the offline update Lockbox (which contains the update payload) to multiple devices. In this way you can achieve a similar effect to updating multiple devices at once like a fleet. All offline updates care about is whether the Lockbox is present in the configured location on the device’s filesystem. How you choose to deliver the Lockbox to this location is up to customer discretion.
Best Regards,
Jeremias
Let me just add that, if you have serious structural concerns about Toradex software or hardware design availability in the event of Toradex going out of business or discontinuing product lines, we can do software escrow agreements. Feel free to reach out to your sales rep if you’re interested in exploring that option.
